> I hear that Microsoft isn't going to allow
> Vista on their Macs?
Not true! Vista is said to work great in Boot Camp, not to mention Parallels. What you may have heard is that Vista's license only allow the Home 'versions' of Vista to run under virtualization software.
That's just a licensing thing, and the software technically works. They just want you to buy a more expensive version.
Think about it - Microsoft would love for Mac users to buy copies of Windows. Boxed copies of Windows are pretty much sheer profit for them, surely more than they get for OEM versions that come with PCs. They'd also love for Mac users to still need a Windows crutch and continue buying Windows software.
Anyhow, nice to see you leaning toward the Mac. You might want to consider doing a clean install of Windows on your PC, as XP - as much as I dislike Windows - should not be bluescreening twice a day. Sounds like a corrupt driver or something.
- Jeff
Posted by Jeff at February 25, 2007 12:18 PMOh yeah, and there is a pretty big Mac OS X update coming real soon - Mac OS X 10.5 "leopard" (for some reason, Apple has been branding their OS updates after cats - here's to hoping "tabby" comes out soon, heh).
You can see all the new stuff here:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/
- Jeff
Posted by Jeff at February 25, 2007 12:20 PMSo, do I have to buy a copy of windows separately then install parallels or bootcamp? I'm unclear how that works. I'd be more comfortable with an XP install than Vista. I've heard Vista has put in some sketchy security stuff that takes choice away from the user. IE my bittorrent may or may not work on it. However, I might not have to worry about that stuff (ie: Windows) if I get a Mac and can get my stuff to run just fine on it anyway. :) Is it possible to download something on the Mac side, then transfer it over to Windows? Such as, download a .avi movie on the Mac side then play it on Windows?
I really need to take a trip with J to visit the Apple store. I kinda want to buy one now, but I think I'd better wait for the OS upgrade. I hear it's got some cool stuff coming. Any idea when this will happen? And does a Mac OS upgrade have the same problems as a Windows upgrade (stuff not working and so on)?
I'm pretty sure my blue screen is from my router card. I'm not even going to mess with it anymore. Every time I do, my blood pressure rises to cardiac arrest levels. I can't believe I spent several hundred dollars for a new hard drive and getting things put back in place, only for it still to be friggen broken. I'm so done with crap like this...
Posted by Zoso at February 25, 2007 01:42 PM> So, do I have to buy a copy of windows separately
> then install parallels or bootcamp?
Technically, yeah. It's possible that an OEM version (ie. something that came with your current computer) will install okay, but I wouldn't bet on it.
It works like this: You install Parallels or Boot Camp (or both!). Then, you pop in your Windows CD and restart Parallels/Boot Camp and start up from the CD. You then install Windows as if you were using a PC. Both Boot Camp and Parallels will want you to install some additional drivers (which are included), but that's about it.
> I've heard Vista has put in some sketchy security
> stuff that takes choice away from the user. IE my
> bittorrent may or may not work on it.
I know that Vista has some pretty draconian Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology in it, though I doubt it would impact any rips of stuff you may download via BitTorrent. I've not followed it too closely, though it does make me chuckle that Microsoft is selling people what is in effect a downgrade in some cases.
Apple uses DRM with their own iTunes music store downloads (though Steve Jobs has said he wouldn't even do that if the music studios would let him get away without it), but doesn't impose it within the OS itself.
> Is it possible to download something on the Mac
> side, then transfer it over to Windows? Such as,
> download a .avi movie on the Mac side then play
> it on Windows?
Oh yeah, absolutely. Parallels has a 'shared folders' feature where you can copy stuff back and forth between the two.
> I really need to take a trip with J to visit the
> Apple store.
This would be a good idea. Apple Stores are really cool places, and you can play around with the Macs they have there. Unfortunately, all of the Apple Stores in WA are on the west coast. Me, I have one ~1 mile away. :)
Note that until Leopard comes out, they're unlikely to be showing off Boot Camp (as it's still in beta) in the stores. I don't know if they'll show off Parallels, as it's not an Apple product. But I'm sure they can answer most questions you have about it.
I would recommend waiting until Leopard (10.5) comes out, if you can wait that long. A couple of reasons: 1) That's the first version that will include Boot Camp as a non-beta, supported piece of software. 2) You'll save the cost of the OS upgrade.
Mac OS X upgrades work a bit differently than Windows upgrades. Usually there is one major (paid) upgrade every 18 months or so, including bug fixes and major feature revisions. These usually cost ~$120 or so. You can usually skip an upgrade without problems - Mac OS X has been around for a while, so at this point current software tends to work with older OS releases. New software often takes advantage of new OS features, though, and usually developers start off by only supporting the current OS version.
There's only one version of Mac OS X intended for home users (there are something like a half dozen versions of Vista). You buy it, it comes in a box, and that's it. Pretty straight-forward.
I've not had any real problem with OS X upgrades since really early versions (10.2 and earlier). That was a time of transition from 'classic' Mac OS (what you probably remember from computers when you were in high school, etc), so things were a bit rockier back then.
Note: They've not released a time-frame for 10.5's release other than "spring 2007". So, it should be coming pretty soon.
- Jeff
So, which do you use? Parallels or Boot Camp? Or better question, which do you prefer?
Thanks for answering all my questions. I really appreciate it.
Posted by Zoso at February 26, 2007 07:14 AM> So, which do you use? Parallels or Boot Camp? Or
> better question, which do you prefer?
I use both, actually, I leave Parallels up and running 24/7 just in case I need to test a site or something in IE for Windows. That's pretty much the only thing I use it for, though, as I don't really need Windows much.
(Note: I have 2 GB of RAM on my iMac, so I can do that. Running two operating systems at once is somewhat RAM intensive)
I use Boot Camp for the occasional Windows-only game - namely, Age of Empires III. In this case you are _running Windows natively_. It's a PC, no more or less, and it behaves just like one. The only downside is that you have to reboot to use Boot Camp.
So - Parallels for occasional Windows use (testing sites in IE, usually), Boot Camp for gaming. Though, to be honest I very rarely use Windows for much of anything so I may not be a very good real world example.
- J
Posted by Jeff at February 27, 2007 12:15 PMBTW, my suggestion to you:
Don't buy Parallels right away. If you lean on the Windows crutch too much, you may never stop using it. If you have to reboot into Boot Camp to use something, you may instead just pop onto Versiontracker and find a good Mac equivalent instead and that's a good thing.
It's tremendous overkill to keep Windows booted up when all you really need is one small application for which there is a Mac equivalent already.
Really, these days, the only thing I can see most people needing Windows for is gaming. Save yourself the money and stick with Boot Camp. If you feel the need to try Parallels, just download the free demo later on and give it a shot.
- Jeff
Oh, and I guess I didn't really answer your question about 'preference'. :)
I prefer not to use Windows at all, so something like Boot Camp or Parallels is mostly something to endure.
Both work well, though as Boot Camp doesn't run Windows in any sort of 'layer' it is pretty much guaranteed to be more compatible. There's no slow-down whatsoever and you'll be hard-pressed to find any Windows software that doesn't work with it.
Parallels uses some goofy tricks to make Windows work within Mac OS X. It's not a hack - there are officially supported mechanisms in place to do this - but any time you add complexity to a system the chances for problems increase (I must stress that I've not seen any problems myself, though).
So, Parallels wins for convenience and Boot Camp wins for compatibility. Boot Camp is also free so it wins on those grounds as well. Again, I'd recommend sticking with Boot Camp and only getting Parallels if you get tired of having to reboot back and forth.
In fact, you might even consider using neither and discovering for yourself if you even really need them. There's nothing stopping you from installing either of them down the road, after all.
- Jeff
Posted by Jeff at February 27, 2007 12:28 PMThanks, Jeff. You've been a big help.
Really, the only thing I'd use Windows for is if I couldn't get my 'hobby' stuff to work, since that's mainly what I use my computer for--bittorrent, .avi movies, and Photoshop. As you and J have both said, these all have a Mac equivalent, so I shouldn't have to worry too much. I guess I've had so much trouble with computers, I'm a little gun shy. Nothing ever seems to be easy and I always have issues. *laughs*
So (more questions LOL), what sort of iMac would you recommend for me? Memory wise and such? I don't do any gaming, but I've been toying with playing "Spore" when it comes out. Movies I download are around 175MB each, though I usually burn them to CD after a week or two.
And, just because I'm curious, what sort of features are super cool on the Mac? *laughs* Anything that really stands out against the PC (besides it just works lol)? Is navigation that much different on a Mac?
I'm pretty much sold on a Mac, thanks to you and J. I guess my biggest fear is I'll get a Mac and none of the stuff I like to do will work for me. A silly worry, but I can't help it. I've had no luck with computers what so ever. :( On the other hand, I keep telling myself, "What's the difference?" Buy and new PC and I know it will die in a year or two. *laughs*
Posted by Zoso at February 28, 2007 06:41 AMHey, sorry I've kinda dropped out of this thread a bit, but Jeff answered better than I probably could have. They actually have a new iMac set up with Bootcamp at COMPUSA in Spokane if you want to see it, but don't want to drive that far. They also have an Apple rep there on Saturdays (Apple reps are recruited from Mac User groups, not hired by the store so they are usually a great resource).
My recommendation for you would be to buy an iMac (probably of the 17" or 19" variety). Be sure to use your student discount. I would recommend waiting for Leopard as Jeff mentioned because the iMac is due for an upgraded body design and the rumor is that it will come along with Leopard here within the next 2 months. I would heavily stress 2gb of ram and a large hard drive for you. I believe you can get Hard drives in the 250 and 500gb capacity. I have an external 500GB hard drive on our Mac Mini and it was virtually as simple as I plugged it in and dragged and dropped things to it. There was no setup, no drivers... nothing... just worked. You may have to get used to things just working. It's sometimes difficult for Windows users to comprehend that they don't need to take a day off of work to set up a new mouse or hard drive.
I would go so far as to say "overbuy" your hard drive and ram because Macs have fewer problems, you are less likely to need to shop for a new one 2 years from now, so making a reasonable investment now will give you a computer you can get several years out of. iMacs of current are not the cheap iMacs of the past... they will last quite a while.
You may also find the things you can do with iLife entice you to use more of your computer's resources. For instance, Macs are very much the ideal computer for ametuer photographres. iPhoto comes for free with Macs and, depending on your needs, you can go all the way to Aperature (a professional digital photography solution) without having to buy a fancy new computer. Your iMac should handle any software that might hit the market for the next few years without any problems.
Like any other muphy's law ensures that a bigger, better, model will hit the market as soon as you buy yours, but the difference with a mac is the reliability of the OS makes it more of an investment than a disposable purchase.
Also, you may find features in the Mac versions of Adobe products like photoshop that you didn't see in the PC versions. This is due to the high number of creative professionals who are amongst Apple's userbase. When it comes to Music, Video Editing, or Professional grade photography. About anybody will tell you that the Mac is the platform of choice.
Also, you should note that you are not the only person considering switching. Apple was the only computer manufacturer that saw significant market increase last year, and their sales of mac's doubled January over Febraury. Half of all macs currently being sold are to new users. Now is a great time to switch because the company is very aware that a large portion of their userbase is new and have taken steps in the customer support to embrace that.
As for Vista, if you decide later that you need it, you can always boot it off of Bootcamp. That is to say if you can ever determine which version is meant for you. I often count the various versions of Vista like one would historically count sheep to fall asleep at night.
Posted by J at March 1, 2007 07:09 PMWow. The comments section that never dies. :)
...
Another thing: I would recommend not buying your extra RAM from Apple. They mark up the cost of memory like crazy, and the only benefit of getting it through them is the fact that you don't have to install it yourself (which, on my iMac, was as simple as unscrewing 4 screws and popping them in - even easier if you recruit J to do it). You can literally save hundreds by buying RAM elsewhere, ie. smalldog.com - a great Mac-specific online retailer, by the way.
As for the iMac, if you can swing the cost I'd definitely go that direction. They're no longer the low end of Apple's line (they're "middle range"), and will last you a lot longer and perform better than a Mac Mini. I use a 2 Ghz dual core iMac and once I bumped up the RAM in it a bit I don't have to wait for _anything_.
You don't really need 2 GB of RAM - 1 GB is probably fine - though if you plan on using Parallels you might want to consider it (Windows + Mac OS X means a lot of memory usage). More is always better, though, and the best way to squeeze performance out of a computer is usually by adding memory.
- Jeff